Talk:Quinn/@comment-4094339-20130507052216/@comment-9008617-20130512000126
"Most of the time you'll be using BotRK on bruisers to kite them. The range is about equal to your autoattack range though." Most of the time is not all the time. If you play 5s as an ADC in this meta, you're likely going to be in bot lane against another ADC and their support with the occasional jungler coming in to gank. The big point, however, is that you still failed to address not many champs reach 3000 max health and even if they do it's usually a late game achievement and usually not seen in early or mid game. Whereas Trinity Force you will have the 250 health bonus regardless without having to try to steal it from 500 range of an enemy with 3000+ health... Sure, we could agree that the range is "about equal" to the AA range of the ranged ADCs in this game or we can look up the numbers and realize that BotRK active range is actually shorter than every ranged ADC in the game with the exception of Kog and Sivir (Teemo and Jayce if you really want to include them as ranged ADCs). "I would say that the BotRK active is much more better during escapes or chases though generally as you gain the stolen movement speed." BotRK active only lasts 4 seconds and has a 60 second CD whereas Phage procs can be refreshed and be applied indefinitely to any number of targets as you're chasing or running. "I'm limiting it to one champion because we're talking about Quinn. I can do this for every AD carry if you want. Also I have hundreds of experiences of Trinity's slow not proccing when you need it. 25% chance is unreliable. Just like you can't rely on critting at the right moment when you have Infinity Edge and no other crit items." When you reach 2.00 attack speed, you'll land 4 hits in the span of 2 seconds which means you'll likely proc every 2 seconds. Unreliable? Maybe. As easily dismissed as you did? Definitely not. Again, comparing BotRK 1 min CD active to an indefinite multiple target passive here. Obvious pros and cons. "Makes Trinity Force even more useless if that's true. I'm pretty sure it's AT LEAST 15 though..." Because 10% crit is worse than 0% crit, right? "Furor grants 4 times this difference. Not blindly buying Homeguard will already solve the problem." Who's blindly buying Homeguard though? Just an FYI, endgame I don't even wear boots. =P "Ezreal has 4 abilities scaling off AP. Quinn has 1. Or do you say you're also building Trinity Force on Tristana and Varus?" You said Trinity Force is bad on ALL ADCs. Unlike you, I didn't make the claim that Trinity was good (or bad) for all ADCs. "It can't hurt. But that doesn't mean you need it." Mana can get to be a problem when you're spamming skills. It's still a biased attempt on your part for dismissing bonus stats of an item when comparing your item to another. "'''As I already said, you don't space out your abilities on Quinn. Taking the lowest cooldown, you get it every SEVEN seconds, not two seconds."' Again, you said ALL ADCs. Besides, 150% basic attack every 7 seconds is better than nothing, right? You again chose to bias your argument by dismissing good stats from one item. '"However, teamfights normally don't last more than ~10 seconds, after which you don't need it for 90 seconds (sure it's not 60 seconds by he way?)."' My bad, the active CD is 60 seconds. The initial team fight might last only 10 seconds if it's that aggressive and all-out but usually not everyone dies in the first 10 seconds. In either case, you can't even help your team escape or chase more than one target or any target if your BotRK active is on CD. Not to mention, the stolen movement speed boost only lasts 4 seconds whereas Trinity Force's movement speed bonus passive is indefinite as are the phage procs. '"I disregarded 15 damage per seven seconds, as 2 dps is NOTHING on an AD carry who has 1000 dps already."' Where are you getting this 15 damage per seven seconds from...? '"I disregarded the mana because you back with 2k gold anyways after every teamfight, you have 840 base mana, a full ability cycle costs 230 mana, if you use both Q and E five times (and don't try to tell me you use it five times in one teamfight) it's 750 mana, not counting mana regen and any blue buffs you might take from killing the enemy mid."' Who says you back with 2k gold after every teamfight? And who's to say that your team, let alone the enemy team, is going to wait for you to have full mana going into a teamfight? No matter how you cut it, you're puposely dismissing a good bonus from a piece of equipment in order to bias the comparison. '"I disregarded the movement speed bonus because Furor + BotRK + Phantom Dancer (which you will want anyways for Ignore Unit Collision) + Ult + W passive mean you can already kite or chase anything but Hecarim. This 10 movement speed doesn't change that."' I touched upon this earlier but boots + furor or boots in general are typically overrated and overused especially on an ADC but that's for another discussion. And again, we're talking about ALL ADCs as you so brazenly have stated. Also we're talking about why Trinity Force is a bad item on all ADCs and you've been using BotRK as your standard. In which case, BotRK will give you that one time 4 second movement speed boost/debuff every one minute as long as you're within 500 range of the enemy target whereas Trinity Force will give you a consistent 8% movement speed buff regardless of where the target is and indefinite passive speed debuff within your AA range or on-hit skill range albeit at 25% chance. '"I disregarded the Icy passive for the same reason - You can already escape from everything and chase everything. Believe me, I've been jumped on by three of those AP carries/AD Casters/AD bruisers or whatever they were, and I escaped. Oh yeah, and I'd like to mention that, if you are trying to escape, you don't really have the time to autoattack anyways."' I'm assuming you're talking about using Quinn whose ult and CC blind and slow may have more of an bearing on the escape than BotRK or Trinity Force... Then again, if 3 people jumped you and you got away then it may speak more of the skill level of the 3 than of yours... Phage procs on hit skills as well. And depending on who's chasing you, you may have time to throw in an AA here and there... but of course that's a lot easier to do when you don't only have 4 seconds of movement speed buff to work with. '"The Spellblade passive grants about 150 damage per 7 seconds, which is 20 damage per second. While it's more than the AP, it's still neglectible."''' Spellblade grants 150% of your next basic attack and we're talking about all ADCs as you've claimed. In any case, Trinity Force has been nerfed quite a bit and repeatedly but your arguments and the way you construct your arguments really lack some finesse and substance. Btw, Leyrann, there's an edit button on these things. You should use it instead of double posting all the time.